To Nate’s point, Sanders has gone after Biden’s moves to the left based on the fact that Sanders has been to the left from the start. Sanders’s response might suggest that he’s still in this race to fight on, even if it looks like Biden is a huge favorite to win the Democratic nomination.
That’s interesting, Sarah. I don’t think Sanders has done anything at this debate to make Biden move left, but I don’t think this was ever the medium through which he would do it — as Nate said, Biden has been adopting Sanders-esque policies all by himself as a way to offer an olive branch to what is clearly a large portion of the Democratic Party.
I mean … Biden’s sort of been moving to the left voluntarily over the past few days, and Sanders doesn’t quite seem to know what to do with it.
All right, second commercial break of the evening. We’ve discussed numerous times tonight that this might be Sanders’s last push to try and force Biden to the left. Do folks generally agree with that? Or how would you describe tonight’s dynamics?
Biden was talking about banning fracking on federal lands, not fracking across the board.
At least up to now, Biden has opposed a fracking ban. I’m a bit confused about what he just said. The swing-state Democrats that support Biden don’t like a fracking ban. Sanders supports a fracking ban — and this has freaked out the swing-state voters.
Exhibit A, Amelia: The bars this weekend, if social media is any indication, were packed.
I don’t know if this is just me, but this debate about how climate change is an existential threat — which, to be clear, it is! — feels a little odd right now in the face of a much more urgent threat.
I think it’s a stretch. The primary isn’t that close, Biden has been reasonably smooth in this debate, the coronavirus talk and Biden’s VP pledge will make most of the news tomorrow, and we’re mostly just watching to see if there’s some sort of colossal Biden fuckup in the next 30 minutes.
It’s funny that Sanders is saying the response to climate change and the coronavirus should be similarly dramatic, because those two crises have also been compared for how difficult it is to spur collective action. The scope of the crisis is part of Sanders’s argument for revolutionary change — but it’s also one of the reasons that revolutionary change can be such a hard sell, because it can take a lot to get people on board even with incremental change.
I think the good news for Biden is that he, at least so far tonight, hasn’t had one of his halting, iffy debate performances. But that might be right, Micah, if he does slip up.
So one potential negative for Biden from these debates (maybe this is a stretch?): We’ve talked a lot tonight about polls showing more voters trust Biden to handle a crisis than Sanders — I wonder if Biden’s somewhat halting debate performances hurt that image. That is, I think Biden does well in those polls because of his experience, and so on. But his tendency to mix-up/skip words in these debates doesn’t exactly scream “steady hand.”
This current strain of thought reinforces for me that Sanders is using tonight to reiterate his biggest talking points and to push Biden as far as he can to the left. Moments ago, Sanders pivoted from climate change to say, “And this gets back to the point I’m trying to make all night long. Do we take on the health care industry and tell them their profits are not more important than health care for all?” That is so central to Sanders’s campaign, and he isn’t letting up tonight. He’s pushing Biden as hard as he can on a variety of issues — health care, climate change, immigration, etc.
We are back to the “facing each other and yelling about policy” portion of the debate.
CNN is using a split screen so that you can see Sanders shake his head at everything Biden says in his answer on climate change.
The freeze on deportations shows why campaigns matter so much. Immigration activists spent months hounding a bunch of candidates on that issue — and they pinned down Sanders and Biden in part because both were vying so hard for Latino voters. This is a promise that matters. It’s clear and easy to remember. It would be really hard for Sanders or Biden to backtrack from it during the general election or in office.
Nate, I’m a big shusher. I can’t help it.
Can’t avoid the contrarian take, can you, Nate? 😉
I like the audience, it makes it more fun, and all of you are just being hipsters for saying otherwise.
There’s been so much time to speak in this debate, they sometimes have quiet pauses, and they’ve even given each other a chance to respond to criticism … a revelation!
Yeah, it’s sad it took an epidemic for this to happen, but I think it makes for a stronger debate.
I am finding tonight’s debate much easier to follow, Nathaniel, but I don’t know if that’s because of the lack of an audience or the fact that there aren’t a zillion candidates on the stage all trying to talk over each other.
I like it. I think that’s helped the moderators let the two of them talk a fair amount without interruption. There aren’t any outside interruptions from audience members clapping, yelling and whatnot.
It feels more civilized. There’s something very game-show-y about having supporters hooting and booing.
How do people think the no-audience thing is going tonight?
Earlier tonight, we were asking whether all questions would be asked through the lens of the coronavirus crisis. Right now, though, it seems like a fairly standard debate — I feel like the virus hasn’t come up at all in a while.
So that was an interesting exchange. I read a lot about how Democrats should stop talking about “identity politics” in 2016/17 from the same people who are now supporting Biden and who I’m sure will praise him for committing to picking a female VP. It’s almost as if bemoaning identity politics was/is really a way to get feminist/black civil rights activists to shut up. That Sanders would not totally commit to a woman was telling as well. I think he would end up picking a woman if he’s nominated, but he emphasized wanting to pick a progressive. I am not sure how I feel normatively about Biden’s promise. You want to avoid seeming “token-y.” The best person to be his running mate might be a woman, and if that’s the case, I think I would rather Biden just pick her than make a big show of picking a woman and excluding any men from being potentially chosen. Same for this black female Supreme Court justice commitment.
Biden was criticized for the Obama administration’s aggressive deportation record, which many immigration rights advocates are still unhappy about. His pledge to only deport felons is a pretty striking response to that.
These canards are malarkey!
Per a January Pew Research Center survey, 51 percent of Democrats and those who lean Democratic say illegal immigration is a “moderately big” or “very big” problem in the country today. That number jumps to 59 percent for Biden supporters. It falls to 36 percent for Sanders supporters.
Each of the three “chapters” of this debate has been very tonally distinct and has had a different headline. First, a somber and presidential response to the coronavirus. Second, a catty rehashing of their old Senate records. Third, Biden makes hard news on picking a female vice president and stopping deportations.
Kaleigh, I’m not that old … yet.
Micah, a 9 p.m. dinner? You’re definitely not in the early-bird-special crowd.
Not to brag, but to brag … my debate halftime dinner is no joke:
Biden just made more news: He says he would freeze deportations upon taking office and eventually would only deport felons.
Someone who might be interesting would be Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, but she’s only been in office since winning in 2018, so might be too quick a turnaround there.
I agree with Skelley. I think someone like Klobuchar or Harris is the most likely pick.
I don’t think 77-year-old Biden can pick someone who hasn’t held a top statewide or federal office. Which might take Abrams out of the conversation.
Harris or Duckworth get my bet.
I think Harris, Duckworth, Warren and Cortez Masto are at the top of the list, Micah.
“In all likelihood, I will,” says Sanders when Abash pushed him on the VP question again.
When I saw Biden in Michigan last week, he was introduced by Harris and Booker. There was lots of speculation in the crowd about whether one would be VP. Guess it’s not going to be Booker!
STACEY ABRAMS!
So … Harris? Klobuchar? Warren?
So if Biden would 100 percent pick a woman, who are the most likely picks?
I think it was already practically certain that either of these white men would pick a woman as their running mate. But that promise is actually a rare instance of a debate making for a substantive headline that could break through the news din tomorrow.